There's been a lot of discussion about implementing way-points or some similar system for rapid travel from one place to the other in the server. One reason for this is some players tend to be located very far away - and although you can certainly ride the mine-cart rail for 3 kilometers, it takes almost 20 minutes to ride that far. The end result is, unless you have someone to teleport to, you're probably not going anywhere.... and even if you do teleport to someone else, you then have to spend another 10-20 minutes riding the train back home.
Now, I'm not talking about removing the train system - It's fun, I enjoy riding the train, but I definitely would visit other people's places more often if I could do it without a super long ride. Other people have argued against a teleportation system, saying that it would make the train system pointless, and that nobody would ride them if they can just teleport. I disagree, I think people would still ride it, and besides, it's fun to set up the stations and the train system, and I don't want to lose that.
As a secondary point, I am working on setting up a "Trinity World" - a creative build map that would run along side the current map, and we could just jump back and forth between that world and our survival world anytime we wanted. The inventories would be kept isolated, so you wouldn't be bringing anything from one world to the other. I've tested this, it works. However, the easiest way to get from world to world is to use way-points, and if I'm going to set them up for the creative world, then It makes sense to set them up for our main world as well - otherwise, when we leave the creative map, we'd probably have to go to the spawn point every time, and then take the train home. By setting up way-points I can have it so we can teleport from our homes to our own build areas in the creative world (or anyone else's) and then teleport back directly home when finished.
TL;DR - In addition to our existing train system, I want to also set up way-points or some similar teleportation system, it will make it faster to travel long distance from place to place, and would make it easier to enable transportation between our survival map and the new creative build map that I'm setting up.
I'm in favor of using the Waypoint system. It'll make moving from map to map easier when we inevitably have to update, and the movement between peoples different sites will be much easier and faster.
I prefer not to teleport for the most part. I feel like it cheapens minecarts and reduces the achievement involved in getting somewhere, but I also don't like being lost and wouldn't mind just having a way point specifically to spawn station.
We could always build our train stations as portals to the nether, and have a train station in the nether that turns a twenty minute train ride into 1 minute 15 seconds of train ride (I think that math is right).
As for teleporting to the creative world, that's cool. It's a whole other world.
I like the idea of the alternate world that would be all creative mode all the time, and I like the idea of having a separated inventory that doesn't follow me there or back.
I'm not a fan of making a totally safe, totally mob-proof subway system in the nether. I think that defeats the entire purpose of the nether, and really cheapens the whole "gateway to hell" concept. That place is supposed to be deadly and dangerous, and you should go there well armed and well equipped. That's not how I want to have to kit out just to go visit Jason to see his new wheat farm.
After talking with Jason for a while this morning, he's really impressed upon me that the key issues here are mostly about time. Travel time, Setup time, etc etc. Trains are slow, and as we're forced to venture further and further out to find suitable locations for our homes, the train rides get longer and longer. Specific "gate" or "pad" type teleporters are difficult and time consuming to set up. It is easiest and fastest for him, and for all of us, to have an on-demand "teleport me to X location" system.
We'd still have to define where those locations were, perhaps by setting up some kind of a sign at home that said "Home" (I don't know how it would be set up).. but we'd be able to "teleport home" when we were hopelessly lost. with the added bonus of not losing all our inventory and XP just to get home.
I still like the trains, and I think that they're fun to build, and sometimes they're entertaining to use. I had a lot of fun modding the MCEdit tool for Jason, to make the kinds of train tracks we use. I love decorating my train station, and finding a way to fit it into my home. But I also feel that as Mojang inevitably adds more large wilderness biomes into the mix, it's going to become more difficult to find attractive home-building locations within casual visiting distance of the station.
TL;DR - I feel like the addition of site-to-site teleportation would be a positive addition to the server, especially if they were set up alongside the train system. I think we could have a lot of fun with such a system, and it would only serve to increase player interaction, and by doing so, spur us on to collaborate more, and build more interesting things.
I don't think a mob-proof subway in the nether hurts the nether because you can't get nether materials by riding the subway which is the real reason to go to the nether (You wouldn't be able to exit the subway into the nether, and you wouldn't be able to exit the nether into the subway. Totally closed system.). In order to actually enter into the REAL nether you have to have a portal not connected to the subway system. You wouldn't have to kit out to ride the train, but you would have to kit out to actually reap the material rewards which would bring you to the nether in the first place.
It's just a mechanic to allow travel to not take forever, but at the same time, not fall NEARLY as far into the spectrum of "magic cheating".
Way points in the creative world however are awesome, and I still like the idea of a single way point that can just take you to spawn point station so that getting lost in the wilderness is not a huge deal, but still something you'd like to try at least a little bit to avoid since it means you have to go to a central point before you can actually get home. It's a case where a small amount of negative reinforcement is desirable, and potentially turns a failed expedition into a great time to visit your fellow players places of residence.
I am against the waypoint system for a few reasons. I am almost positive that it will remove any reason to use the rail system. I feel like it removes a large aspect of what makes up the minecraft feel. The largeness of the world is also important to me in and I really enjoy both exploring and and, more to the point, watching the scenery pass by while riding the train. it adds a lot to the immersiveness of the game for me.
Even more then just loosing a piece of what I consider a core part of the experience, I feel the part of minecraft that I care the most about is using the available tools to create a better system (aka the rail system or cobblestone generators.) With that in mind I agree with Sean. I would really like to see a better rail system. Possibly using the nether to decrease the travel time.
After reading through everyone's opinions and sussing out my own, it appears that I'm throwing my hat in with the Seans.
I enjoy the rail system we have and I enjoy the time it takes to get from place to place. Lordkawaii said as much as I might say, it adds a little something to the game that I like.
If we wanted a quicker system I would be fine with a netherrail being implemented (I was thinking about making a personal line in the nether already). As for zebragrrl's concern that it makes the nether a safer place and therefore less worrisome or scary, I disagree. Whenever I make a new portal to the nether I always make sure the nether side has a safe landing zone, I never leave it open to attack. In that sense having a rail in my enclosed safe house seems fine.
As for the teleportation waypoints, I have no interest in them, save for possibly one at the spawn point to save me from wandering into infinity when I'm lost. The only reason I can see for having them on each of our individual properties would be for what Jason mentioned, popping back and forth between survival and creative mode. Still, I'd be fine with coming back from creative and being at the spawn point and tramming home.
Vote Amendment: due to resounding apathy in the face real, honest-to-God, heartfelt, American opinions I hereby alter my vote (previously a nay to teleporter shenanigans) to an emphatic neutral!
So I have been giving further consideration to the viewpoints involved in this issue and I feel less strongly than I did previously.
Additionally, I think that if something like this is implemented, regardless of whether it is "Stargates" or just way points that I would like them at spawn station and at players homes who want them, but not so into them at "safety stations".
There's been a lot of discussion about implementing way-points or some similar system for rapid travel from one place to the other in the server. One reason for this is some players tend to be located very far away - and although you can certainly ride the mine-cart rail for 3 kilometers, it takes almost 20 minutes to ride that far. The end result is, unless you have someone to teleport to, you're probably not going anywhere.... and even if you do teleport to someone else, you then have to spend another 10-20 minutes riding the train back home.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm not talking about removing the train system - It's fun, I enjoy riding the train, but I definitely would visit other people's places more often if I could do it without a super long ride. Other people have argued against a teleportation system, saying that it would make the train system pointless, and that nobody would ride them if they can just teleport. I disagree, I think people would still ride it, and besides, it's fun to set up the stations and the train system, and I don't want to lose that.
As a secondary point, I am working on setting up a "Trinity World" - a creative build map that would run along side the current map, and we could just jump back and forth between that world and our survival world anytime we wanted. The inventories would be kept isolated, so you wouldn't be bringing anything from one world to the other. I've tested this, it works. However, the easiest way to get from world to world is to use way-points, and if I'm going to set them up for the creative world, then It makes sense to set them up for our main world as well - otherwise, when we leave the creative map, we'd probably have to go to the spawn point every time, and then take the train home. By setting up way-points I can have it so we can teleport from our homes to our own build areas in the creative world (or anyone else's) and then teleport back directly home when finished.
TL;DR - In addition to our existing train system, I want to also set up way-points or some similar teleportation system, it will make it faster to travel long distance from place to place, and would make it easier to enable transportation between our survival map and the new creative build map that I'm setting up.
I'm in favor of using the Waypoint system. It'll make moving from map to map easier when we inevitably have to update, and the movement between peoples different sites will be much easier and faster.
ReplyDeleteI prefer not to teleport for the most part. I feel like it cheapens minecarts and reduces the achievement involved in getting somewhere, but I also don't like being lost and wouldn't mind just having a way point specifically to spawn station.
ReplyDeleteWe could always build our train stations as portals to the nether, and have a train station in the nether that turns a twenty minute train ride into 1 minute 15 seconds of train ride (I think that math is right).
As for teleporting to the creative world, that's cool. It's a whole other world.
I like the idea of the alternate world that would be all creative mode all the time, and I like the idea of having a separated inventory that doesn't follow me there or back.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fan of making a totally safe, totally mob-proof subway system in the nether. I think that defeats the entire purpose of the nether, and really cheapens the whole "gateway to hell" concept. That place is supposed to be deadly and dangerous, and you should go there well armed and well equipped. That's not how I want to have to kit out just to go visit Jason to see his new wheat farm.
After talking with Jason for a while this morning, he's really impressed upon me that the key issues here are mostly about time. Travel time, Setup time, etc etc. Trains are slow, and as we're forced to venture further and further out to find suitable locations for our homes, the train rides get longer and longer. Specific "gate" or "pad" type teleporters are difficult and time consuming to set up. It is easiest and fastest for him, and for all of us, to have an on-demand "teleport me to X location" system.
We'd still have to define where those locations were, perhaps by setting up some kind of a sign at home that said "Home" (I don't know how it would be set up).. but we'd be able to "teleport home" when we were hopelessly lost. with the added bonus of not losing all our inventory and XP just to get home.
I still like the trains, and I think that they're fun to build, and sometimes they're entertaining to use. I had a lot of fun modding the MCEdit tool for Jason, to make the kinds of train tracks we use. I love decorating my train station, and finding a way to fit it into my home. But I also feel that as Mojang inevitably adds more large wilderness biomes into the mix, it's going to become more difficult to find attractive home-building locations within casual visiting distance of the station.
TL;DR - I feel like the addition of site-to-site teleportation would be a positive addition to the server, especially if they were set up alongside the train system. I think we could have a lot of fun with such a system, and it would only serve to increase player interaction, and by doing so, spur us on to collaborate more, and build more interesting things.
I don't think a mob-proof subway in the nether hurts the nether because you can't get nether materials by riding the subway which is the real reason to go to the nether (You wouldn't be able to exit the subway into the nether, and you wouldn't be able to exit the nether into the subway. Totally closed system.). In order to actually enter into the REAL nether you have to have a portal not connected to the subway system. You wouldn't have to kit out to ride the train, but you would have to kit out to actually reap the material rewards which would bring you to the nether in the first place.
ReplyDeleteIt's just a mechanic to allow travel to not take forever, but at the same time, not fall NEARLY as far into the spectrum of "magic cheating".
Way points in the creative world however are awesome, and I still like the idea of a single way point that can just take you to spawn point station so that getting lost in the wilderness is not a huge deal, but still something you'd like to try at least a little bit to avoid since it means you have to go to a central point before you can actually get home. It's a case where a small amount of negative reinforcement is desirable, and potentially turns a failed expedition into a great time to visit your fellow players places of residence.
I am against the waypoint system for a few reasons. I am almost positive that it will remove any reason to use the rail system. I feel like it removes a large aspect of what makes up the minecraft feel. The largeness of the world is also important to me in and I really enjoy both exploring and and, more to the point, watching the scenery pass by while riding the train. it adds a lot to the immersiveness of the game for me.
ReplyDeleteEven more then just loosing a piece of what I consider a core part of the experience, I feel the part of minecraft that I care the most about is using the available tools to create a better system (aka the rail system or cobblestone generators.) With that in mind I agree with Sean. I would really like to see a better rail system. Possibly using the nether to decrease the travel time.
After reading through everyone's opinions and sussing out my own, it appears that I'm throwing my hat in with the Seans.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy the rail system we have and I enjoy the time it takes to get from place to place. Lordkawaii said as much as I might say, it adds a little something to the game that I like.
If we wanted a quicker system I would be fine with a netherrail being implemented (I was thinking about making a personal line in the nether already). As for zebragrrl's concern that it makes the nether a safer place and therefore less worrisome or scary, I disagree. Whenever I make a new portal to the nether I always make sure the nether side has a safe landing zone, I never leave it open to attack. In that sense having a rail in my enclosed safe house seems fine.
As for the teleportation waypoints, I have no interest in them, save for possibly one at the spawn point to save me from wandering into infinity when I'm lost. The only reason I can see for having them on each of our individual properties would be for what Jason mentioned, popping back and forth between survival and creative mode. Still, I'd be fine with coming back from creative and being at the spawn point and tramming home.
Hot Off the Brain Skillet:
ReplyDeleteVote Amendment: due to resounding apathy in the face real, honest-to-God, heartfelt, American opinions I hereby alter my vote (previously a nay to teleporter shenanigans) to an emphatic neutral!
So I have been giving further consideration to the viewpoints involved in this issue and I feel less strongly than I did previously.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, I think that if something like this is implemented, regardless of whether it is "Stargates" or just way points that I would like them at spawn station and at players homes who want them, but not so into them at "safety stations".